170
170
Dec 9, 2012
12/12
by
MSNBCW
tv
eye 170
favorite 0
quote 0
doma cases are slightly different. i think the doma challenge is much narrower challenge and i expect it to be much more optimistic about a kind of flat-out ruling that this is unconstitutional by the supreme court. the reason i think that, melissa, doma doesn't require any state to change its marriage laws. all it says is the federal government is going to return to what the federal government was always doing before. we were talking about federalism issues earlier in the show. in the history of marriage, the federal government has always deferred to state definitions of marriage. let me give you an example. some states allow first cousins to marry, others don't because of prohibitions, incest concerns and things like that. whatever the state definitions are, the federal government has always followed the state definition. if a state says they're married, the federal government says for the purposes of benefits they're married. in 1996, the defense of marriage act departed from that practice and said the federal gover
doma cases are slightly different. i think the doma challenge is much narrower challenge and i expect it to be much more optimistic about a kind of flat-out ruling that this is unconstitutional by the supreme court. the reason i think that, melissa, doma doesn't require any state to change its marriage laws. all it says is the federal government is going to return to what the federal government was always doing before. we were talking about federalism issues earlier in the show. in the history...
83
83
Dec 9, 2012
12/12
by
MSNBCW
tv
eye 83
favorite 0
quote 0
one is doma, defense of marriage act. this administration won't defend it in the courts. if that gets struck down, what does that say to cases where people have been allowed to marry in the same gender. what happens if doma gets struck down by the court, 5-4, whatever. >> the ridiculously named defense of marriage act would be gone. >> what would it mean to a person married? >> that would bemean couples married in those states would be recognized by the federal government. would mean we still have a lot of work to do and depending how they rule in the prop 8 case we still need other states to move forward with the right to marry. >> an honor to have you on and elizabeth, glad to have you back in a much bigger studio now. the republican establishment at war with his crazy wing, said they lost election because i ideologues pulled mitt romney too far to the right. wrong says the right ring, we lost because mitt romney wasn't right wing enough. the winner will determine whether the gop returns to the center or becomes a more fringy party. >>> two people get in the room. the p
one is doma, defense of marriage act. this administration won't defend it in the courts. if that gets struck down, what does that say to cases where people have been allowed to marry in the same gender. what happens if doma gets struck down by the court, 5-4, whatever. >> the ridiculously named defense of marriage act would be gone. >> what would it mean to a person married? >> that would bemean couples married in those states would be recognized by the federal government....
146
146
Dec 8, 2012
12/12
by
MSNBCW
tv
eye 146
favorite 0
quote 0
what happens it doma gets struck down by the court, 5-4 or whatever? >> the ridiculously named defense of marriage act would be gone obviously. >> what would it mean to a gay person who is married? >> that would mean that couples who are married in those states as well as the district of columbia, their marriages would be recognized by the federal government. now, it would mean we still have a lot of work to do, and depending on how they rule in the prop 8 case, we would still need other states to move forward with the right to marry. >> right. >> thank you. it's an honor to have you on and your organization. elizabeth birch, we are in a much bigger studio. >>> the republican establishment is at war with its crazy wing. they say they lost the election because ideologues pulled mitt romney foo far to the right. that sounds reasonable. wrong says the right wing. we lost because mitt romney wasn't right wing enough. the winner of this little tango will determine whether the gop moves to the center where it might find some votes or becomes an even more fri
what happens it doma gets struck down by the court, 5-4 or whatever? >> the ridiculously named defense of marriage act would be gone obviously. >> what would it mean to a gay person who is married? >> that would mean that couples who are married in those states as well as the district of columbia, their marriages would be recognized by the federal government. now, it would mean we still have a lot of work to do, and depending on how they rule in the prop 8 case, we would still...
160
160
Dec 8, 2012
12/12
by
MSNBCW
tv
eye 160
favorite 0
quote 0
what doma says is two things. one state does not have to recognize the marriage law, same-sex marriage law, of another state. that would be struck down and then there would have to be another test as to full faith and credit. >> if you move from california to utah and you're getting the recognized marriage in california but not in utah, but in utah living in salt lake city you'd be able to get social security benefits and all the federal stuff. >> you would -- it's not clear. >> it would depend how the court rules in that case. >> if the court reaches the question of full faith and credit, what that is, utah must recognize the marriage laws of california, then, yes -- >> but you'd still be getting your social security checks, wouldn't you? >> it's not clear -- >> let's go back to a clear case. if prop 8 -- if the decision by the ninth , if the decision to strike that down, if that is upheld, where do we stand? what does that do? is equality then the law of the land? is marriage equality the law of land? >> it woul
what doma says is two things. one state does not have to recognize the marriage law, same-sex marriage law, of another state. that would be struck down and then there would have to be another test as to full faith and credit. >> if you move from california to utah and you're getting the recognized marriage in california but not in utah, but in utah living in salt lake city you'd be able to get social security benefits and all the federal stuff. >> you would -- it's not clear....
160
160
Dec 8, 2012
12/12
by
MSNBCW
tv
eye 160
favorite 0
quote 0
so with a doma case, it's like justice kennedy's most favorite things. because justice kennedy loves state power. >> loves state's rights. ? and he loves gay rights because of the 1996 case and the 2003 case, both of which he authored the opinion that upheld the rightings of lgbtv individuals. the doe ma case is like the perfect convergence of those two strands so, that's why i'm so confident about the doma case because it's a state's rights case in the sense that the federal government is meddling with the state definitions of marriage. with respect to the prop 8 case, i think again kennedy, because of these two cases i mentioned, is likely to be sympathetic but may be incremental. he may say something along the lines of one state or eight states have to flip. i don't think he'll flip all 41. >> we always appreciate your valuable insight. we hope you'll stick around for the next few months and continue to provide that as we wade through what is undoubtedly going to be a fairly complex case, as well. good saturday to you, sir. thank you for your time. >>
so with a doma case, it's like justice kennedy's most favorite things. because justice kennedy loves state power. >> loves state's rights. ? and he loves gay rights because of the 1996 case and the 2003 case, both of which he authored the opinion that upheld the rightings of lgbtv individuals. the doe ma case is like the perfect convergence of those two strands so, that's why i'm so confident about the doma case because it's a state's rights case in the sense that the federal government...
190
190
Dec 7, 2012
12/12
by
MSNBCW
tv
eye 190
favorite 0
quote 1
so i think that doma law goes by the wayside. the second question is an equal protection question and goes specifically at the california referendum which -- >> the proposition 8. >> the proposition, proposition 8, which makes it illegal under california law to have gay marriage. they will look at that under the equal protection clause. i think it's a little bit hazardous to anticipate where the court will go on that question, and i would be reluctant to do that, but that's kind of an equal protection question. the request he is will the court be ahead of where the public is or behind the public. this is a question that eventually sooner or later, probably sooner, the public will come around to recognize and already is showing by the polls that marriage equality should be considered a fundamental constitutional right. >> professor peterson, to julian's point, despite its rulings on the president's health care law, on immigration, this court maintains a conservative tilt. is this necessarily good news for supporters of same-sex ma
so i think that doma law goes by the wayside. the second question is an equal protection question and goes specifically at the california referendum which -- >> the proposition 8. >> the proposition, proposition 8, which makes it illegal under california law to have gay marriage. they will look at that under the equal protection clause. i think it's a little bit hazardous to anticipate where the court will go on that question, and i would be reluctant to do that, but that's kind of...
160
160
Dec 10, 2012
12/12
by
MSNBCW
tv
eye 160
favorite 0
quote 0
. >> i've heard from the justice department on doma and not with prop 8 and makes it all the more curious. >> the justice department has, again, had a leadership position on overturning the defensive marriage act but if you take the legal position they have advocated in the defensive marriage act cases and you apply it to a situation like proposition 8, all of those anti-gay laws go by the wayside and really a question of them taking the arguments they made in one case and making them again in this other case. >> i want to read from an associated press article on the fear and hope some have regarding gay marriage. gay marriage supporters see 41 reasons to fret over the supreme court's decision to take up the case of california's man on same sex issues and nine states allow partners to marry or will soon. 41 states do not. of those, 30 have written gay marriage bans into their state's constitution. >> i'm not that worried and the reason is because i think that the supreme court would have only taken these cases if they thought that they were ripe for a decision that moves the country forwa
. >> i've heard from the justice department on doma and not with prop 8 and makes it all the more curious. >> the justice department has, again, had a leadership position on overturning the defensive marriage act but if you take the legal position they have advocated in the defensive marriage act cases and you apply it to a situation like proposition 8, all of those anti-gay laws go by the wayside and really a question of them taking the arguments they made in one case and making...
209
209
Dec 8, 2012
12/12
by
FOXNEWSW
tv
eye 209
favorite 0
quote 0
. >> particularly over the doma case. gay marriage advocates who want the defense of marriage act struck down say doma creates a gay-only exception to federal recognition of state licensed marriages. and we believe that the federal government should stop discriminating against same sex couples legally married by their states. but defender of traditional marriage between one man and one woman say, quote: since president bill clinton signed doma into law, 30 states have followed suit by incorporating the definition of marriage into their constitutions. voters in these states will not accept an activist court redefining our most fundamental social institution. arguments on both cases are likely to be in march and rules likely in june. shep? >> shepard: we got another announcement from the supreme court today. it's going to take up another case that really could effect what we all pay for prescription drugs. >> right. this is about the battle between more expensive brand name drugs and cheaper generic drugs. some of the brand
. >> particularly over the doma case. gay marriage advocates who want the defense of marriage act struck down say doma creates a gay-only exception to federal recognition of state licensed marriages. and we believe that the federal government should stop discriminating against same sex couples legally married by their states. but defender of traditional marriage between one man and one woman say, quote: since president bill clinton signed doma into law, 30 states have followed suit by...
167
167
Dec 8, 2012
12/12
by
MSNBCW
tv
eye 167
favorite 0
quote 0
ruling in favor of the arc of history and civil rights, given the fact that they're taking up both doma and prop 8. i wonder where you think roberts fits into all this. >> based on some of the other decisions he has made, i don't think he is quite as conservative as some people think. i think taking up the doma case is really important because we really need to have the defense of marriage act struck down. marriage in the states is great. but at the end of the day, there is an awful lot of benefits that come from the federal tax code that people who get married need to enjoy if you're going to have a fair and equitable situation in society. so i think they made a big step forward here. and, you know, the court is a hard place to read. unfortunately, it's not like the election. well don't have nate silver to read every morning to tell us how it's going to turn out. but we'll all be watching closely. >> chris, there is a third issue that the justices haven't taken up yet, and that's an arizona law that bars some same-sex spouses from access to state benefits. where do we go on that? what
ruling in favor of the arc of history and civil rights, given the fact that they're taking up both doma and prop 8. i wonder where you think roberts fits into all this. >> based on some of the other decisions he has made, i don't think he is quite as conservative as some people think. i think taking up the doma case is really important because we really need to have the defense of marriage act struck down. marriage in the states is great. but at the end of the day, there is an awful lot...
450
450
Dec 8, 2012
12/12
by
KTVU
tv
eye 450
favorite 0
quote 0
. >> either the prop eight or the doma. >> devoted to this. >> despite all of their research r search they did not expect that the supreme court would take up this case. >> we tend to believe that the supreme court is cautious and there are reasons they could have left the case alone. >> we were hoping that the supreme court wouldn't take the prop eight-case in which case, we could get married pretty soon, but it just means more waiting. >> we are pay -- paying our dues. we've been toyed with a little bit, yes, no, up down. i'm going to look at this as a better thing. >> back in 1996 when he was a san francisco supervisor. he cannot believe that gay marriage will be debated by the supreme court this had spring. >> especially for someone like me who's been around for a long time. this is a good thing because i was always laughed at and felt that it couldn't happen. > . >> we're very hopeful that had the decision will break in favor of allowing committed same sex couples. >> we will hear from the former mayor of san francisco, who shart -- started issuing licenses in 2004. . >> you can
. >> either the prop eight or the doma. >> devoted to this. >> despite all of their research r search they did not expect that the supreme court would take up this case. >> we tend to believe that the supreme court is cautious and there are reasons they could have left the case alone. >> we were hoping that the supreme court wouldn't take the prop eight-case in which case, we could get married pretty soon, but it just means more waiting. >> we are pay --...
334
334
Dec 8, 2012
12/12
by
KQED
tv
eye 334
favorite 0
quote 0
>> well, the challenge here to doma really is that only this provision in doma is unconstitutional as applied to legally married same-sex couples. the argument is that that provision discriminates against them by treating them differently from legally married opposite sex couple its. so if the court found in favor of edie windsor as the lower federal appellate court here did t would not affect any state's law that prohibits same-sex marriage so this is more of a yes or so no question, there aren't as many options as there are with the california prop 8 case for the court. >> warner: very briefly, the court did also raise so called standing issues in each one is it fair to say if they rule on these standing issue these could be incredibly narrow rulings. >> they could. the standing questions have to do with whether parties including the united states government are properly before the court in these cases. if the court finds that they are not properly before them the court will never even get to the marriage. the cases will be dismissed. >> warner: marcia, thank you so much. >> my plea
>> well, the challenge here to doma really is that only this provision in doma is unconstitutional as applied to legally married same-sex couples. the argument is that that provision discriminates against them by treating them differently from legally married opposite sex couple its. so if the court found in favor of edie windsor as the lower federal appellate court here did t would not affect any state's law that prohibits same-sex marriage so this is more of a yes or so no question,...
139
139
Dec 10, 2012
12/12
by
CURRENT
tv
eye 139
favorite 0
quote 0
or would, if the supreme court rules against doma. >> if the supreme court rules against doma, nothing changes. >> if they rule for california? >> uh-huh. >> how about all of those other state constitdeletions? automatically invalid dated. >> the 9th circuit, when they decided the case they ruled very narrowly. they said because california had the right, california same-sex couples had the right to marry. then it was taken away from them, that this was similar to the 1996 supreme court case when the colorado voters had amended their constitution and it was a case rommer versus evans in which the voters had taken away ability for any city in colorado to have a non-discrimination policy based upon sexual orientation. the court there had said you can't take away people's rights to enter the system. >> bill: the court could say it's up to the states? >> the court could say you can't take away rights. >> bill: uh-huh. >> you have already granted. that would only impact the state of california. but they could also say that the 14th amendment to the constitution guarantees fundamental rights
or would, if the supreme court rules against doma. >> if the supreme court rules against doma, nothing changes. >> if they rule for california? >> uh-huh. >> how about all of those other state constitdeletions? automatically invalid dated. >> the 9th circuit, when they decided the case they ruled very narrowly. they said because california had the right, california same-sex couples had the right to marry. then it was taken away from them, that this was similar to...
120
120
Dec 10, 2012
12/12
by
CURRENT
tv
eye 120
favorite 0
quote 0
recent public opinion shows americans no longer support doma. one 12 poll revealed americans favored by 51% to 34%. anyway so then basically they're saying what everybody is saying predicting how prop 8 is going to come out however is tougher. blah, blah, blah we clearly established right to same-sex marriage is harder. for starters, it is likely to divide 5-4 as everybody is saying as they do on every important constitutional issue. on most other issues, justice anthony kennedy, probably the most powerful justice is likely to determine the outcome. this is like the guessing game as to what is kennedy going to do. because he had obviously the things everybody talks about two really favorable gay rights rulings then he has other legal views that might conflict with this. do we have his cell phone number? could i give him a call? >> sure. >> stephanie: what you thinking about? what you doing? why are you so distant? you know what i started hoping over the weekend that all of the justices have a gay something. relative friends somebody they really
recent public opinion shows americans no longer support doma. one 12 poll revealed americans favored by 51% to 34%. anyway so then basically they're saying what everybody is saying predicting how prop 8 is going to come out however is tougher. blah, blah, blah we clearly established right to same-sex marriage is harder. for starters, it is likely to divide 5-4 as everybody is saying as they do on every important constitutional issue. on most other issues, justice anthony kennedy, probably the...
300
300
Dec 9, 2012
12/12
by
MSNBCW
tv
eye 300
favorite 0
quote 0
let's start with doma. if that is struck down by the high court, thewill that be thed of conservatives' attempts of outlawing gay marriage? >> it is the mother of all federal laws to try to outlaw. it will be over it it's overturned. if social conservatives try to get smart about this stuff, looking for opportunities to play defense instead of offense, doma, which is a terrible law in my estimation, was an attempt to completely play offense. you can't do this anywhere in any state. we're going to pre-empt you before you try. i think social cons are in a much better position when they say, look, let's make it so the government can't compel us to do things privately we don't want to do. i think you'll see much more emphasis placed on that. the question will be more than what will the supreme court try to do because they don't want to be out in front of public opinion too much. it's going to be fascinating. >> and they've rarely been accused of doing that either. david, let's move on to prop 8 in california. i
let's start with doma. if that is struck down by the high court, thewill that be thed of conservatives' attempts of outlawing gay marriage? >> it is the mother of all federal laws to try to outlaw. it will be over it it's overturned. if social conservatives try to get smart about this stuff, looking for opportunities to play defense instead of offense, doma, which is a terrible law in my estimation, was an attempt to completely play offense. you can't do this anywhere in any state. we're...
149
149
Dec 8, 2012
12/12
by
MSNBCW
tv
eye 149
favorite 0
quote 0
. >> the other case involves doma, defense of marriage act. what's at the heart of that question? >> not the fundamental right of same-sex marriage but whether the federal government can define marriage in a certain way, as between one man and one woman. historically that's been the job of the states to decide what marriage is, to define it. that really is the federal government stepping somewhere where it hasn't before. what they have done with that statute is say people can't have thousands of federal benefits. the case before the supreme court involves a woman who had to pay $363,000 in estate taxes she wouldn't have had to pay just because the person she was married to was the same gender as herself. it's fairness but limbed to that one state. >> patricia, always good to see you. thanks for weighing in. >> thank you. >> the deadline for the fiscal cliff is just over three weeks away. lawmakers are still mired in part in gridlock, each side saying the other is to blame. what do their constituents think? cnbc says 21% would blame the president, 23% blame republicans, 52 blame ea
. >> the other case involves doma, defense of marriage act. what's at the heart of that question? >> not the fundamental right of same-sex marriage but whether the federal government can define marriage in a certain way, as between one man and one woman. historically that's been the job of the states to decide what marriage is, to define it. that really is the federal government stepping somewhere where it hasn't before. what they have done with that statute is say people can't have...
338
338
Dec 7, 2012
12/12
by
CNNW
tv
eye 338
favorite 0
quote 1
in fact, ten cases related to the federal defense of marriage act, or doma and proposition 8 are pending against supreme court justices right now. at least one of them is going to make it to their docket. we could find out which one today about early next week or so. i'm joined by our legal analyst jeffrey tubin. remind us what are the court's oping whz it comes to marriage equality, and the differences here between doma and prop 8. >> well, defense of marriage act -- defense of marriage act was signed by president clinton in 1996, and it's a law that says the federal government, all as pecks of the federal government, including the internal revenue service will not recognize same-sex marriages even many states where same-sex marriage is legal and two appeals courts have held that that is unconstitutional, that it is unlawful discrimination. the obama administration agrees that this law is unconstitutional. it's now being defended by a lawyer hired by the house of representatives, and the case about is the defense of marriage act constitutional, that is one. there are several different c
in fact, ten cases related to the federal defense of marriage act, or doma and proposition 8 are pending against supreme court justices right now. at least one of them is going to make it to their docket. we could find out which one today about early next week or so. i'm joined by our legal analyst jeffrey tubin. remind us what are the court's oping whz it comes to marriage equality, and the differences here between doma and prop 8. >> well, defense of marriage act -- defense of marriage...